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RE: Why does Australia get all the good campers?
Very different mindset here. To put it in perspective something that carries from 2-20 tonnes (4000-40,000lb) and basically exists to carry goods is a Truck, a lot have flat beds that are the basis for Box trucks and other conversions.. There are a staggering number of these in Australia. Pickups are Asian / US sourced and are a dual use (commercial and private) and basically have style side bodies.
Utes are car based trucks or" Lifestyle vehicles". A Ute can be a "tradesman's Ferrari" or a light truck with a 2,800lb cargo capacity.
They are very much liked for their car like road holding, handling , low loading and unloading and performance.
I took this shot from the window of a bus stuck in traffic in Los Angeles. To a lot of Australians (especially the ones on the Bus) this did look odd, due to the relative absence of Light to medium trucks. There were a lot of cars , lighter pickups , SUV's and some heavy Trucks, but the heavier than F350's Light and medium vehicles were few and far between.
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RobertRyan
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11/22/08 09:06pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Why does Australia get all the good campers?
Could it be that maybe the manufacturers down there listen to their customers as to what they want, then build it, vs US manufacturers who build it and say this is what you want. (big 3 in Detroit included-maybe that's why they're in the shape they are today) Gary
Very different mindset here. To put it in perspective something that carries from 2-20 tonnes (4000-40,000lb) and basically exists to carry goods is a Truck, a lot have flat beds that are the basis for Box trucks and other conversions.. There are a staggering number of these in Australia. Pickups are Asian / US sourced and are a dual use and basically have styleside bodies.
Utes are car based trucks or" Lifestyle vehicles". A Ute can be a "tradesmans ferrari" or a light truck with a 2,800lb cargo capacity.
They are very much liked for their car like roadholding,handling , low loading and unloading and performance.
I took this shot from the window of a bus stuck in traffic in Los Angeles. To a lot of Australians(expecially the ones on the Bus) this did look odd, due to the relative absence of Light to medium trucks. There were a lot of cars , lighter pickups , SUV's and some heavy Trucks, but the heavier than F350's Light and medium vehicles were few and far between.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a186/RobRyan7/USTrip036.jpg
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RobertRyan
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11/22/08 08:55pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Future without NEW Pick-Up Trucks?
But if they don't its looks as though I will have a Class 8 Truck and chop off the rear axle to tow the Mobile Suites. There are many of them out there. GBY....
Problem is the range of heavier than a F350 type vehicle is pretty limited in the US, although they are fairly common here in Australia. No I cannot see Toyota/Nissan trying produce a F350-F450, not in this economic climate. They tend to produce vehicles they can sell everywhere not just in North America( Toyota has been burnt by the NA only Tundra and Sequoia)
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RobertRyan
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11/22/08 08:22pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Future without NEW Pick-Up Trucks?
You may see more of the European Cab Chassis Van Pickups. They have payloads of 5000lbs + and in Australia haul 13,000lb GCWR 5th wheels.Not bad for a 3 litre diesel.
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RobertRyan
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11/22/08 04:06pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Why does Australia get all the good campers?
3rd point, go compare the durability, payload, gvwr of their trucks to N. American trucks. Compare with EU, S.Africa, and Australia. N. American basic trucks are weak, very weak. EU trucks have payload and fit in small places. Don't buy the stuff handed out on this continent that you have to have size to have rugged.
& this morning I had an email from an Aussie friend. He'd been reading and article on how N. American rigs just don't stand up to Aussie conditions - not rugged enough. & it also went into the issue of LPG, which is also a much more common fuel there as it is in EU.
Exactly. I had someone try to argue that US trucks were heavier then you get elsewhere,(the thread was eventually stopped by the moderators) it is the other way around. F150, F250, F350's would not hack it in Australia as general use Trucks. Their load capacity and general build is way too light. The F250 and F350 have been imported as 5th wheel "tugs", even there they are now challenged by the IVECO Daily Cab Chassis Van. Their car/truck nature is better suited to towing larger 5th wheels, although a F350 dually here would be rated here as having a bumper tow capacity of 10,500lbs( due to the relatively light weight of the vehicle)
Other large US Pickups have been imported as "Bling Vehicles" or as a "look at me I am driving a big Ute". Cost of RHD conversion and the
above reasons have limited the number imported here.
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RobertRyan
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11/22/08 03:16pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Why does Australia get all the good campers?
Well... how about carry anything that won't fit in a normal truck truck bed? They also make removable sides for flat beds if you are worried about things falling out. Flat beds can be very handy.
How very true. Flatbeds with folding and removable sides are very common in Australia, for Utes, Pickups and Trucks.
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RobertRyan
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11/21/08 08:35pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Okanagan is now likely toast as well
It is interesting that of the few 5th wheel, importers and manufacturers here in Australia, Okanagan was one of them.
http://www.okanagan.com.au/
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RobertRyan
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11/20/08 11:37am |
Truck Campers
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RE: A view from within GM
I know we are getting very much away from the topic.
Do you know what 44 tons is? It's 88,000 lbs and that would have to be in a narrow much shorter and lower height truck-trailer combo that Europe has compared to the 80,000 lb max USA trucks can generally be with their wider, higher, and 53ft long trailers. Quite a feat I'd say unless you are always transporting steel, lead or liquid type items. Here, local laws and/or states laws can or do have slight differences pertaining to their particular allowances or requirements within their jurisdiction
Yes I know how much how much the regulations very from State to State in the US. European Trucks are moving more towards heavier B-Doubles, that is why you are seeing 680hp MAN's and 660hp Volvo's
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RobertRyan
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11/19/08 06:06pm |
Around the Campfire
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RE: A view from within GM
I have just gotten off the phone with our Son who knows what he could ship legally in England or to his trading countries of Europe he shipped to. 22 tons is max for typical OTR shipping without special permits
Well the average I saw was 44 tons. A Medium is about 22 tons. Yes you do transport longer distances, but the heavy truck traffic in Europe is horrendous. They have a lot more people in a relative smaller area living in smaller cities, so the truck traffic is very heavy indeed, even taking in the fact they have a good rail system.
Where do you think or suppose the Europeans hide all these RV's the middle class families own as they sure aren't seen in any numbers at their homes. There's no place to park them period! Do you suppose they let the air out and fold them up and store them under their beds? At the very most, I doubt I've seen one home or flat with any type RV or boat parked out of 100 or 200 homes passed and that's being very generous. Here, It' more like one out of 3-5 homes have an RV and storage locations are loaded where restrictions apply! Add in the boat trailers and there's about double the number of trailers you'll see by the average home. Heck, we have 7 trailers right here in our yard and they're all ours, licensed, and all but 2 are very recent models. Our neighbors have RV's and boats on trailers also. It's so commom here.....
News to me I certaintly did not get the impression RV's were popping out of the woodwork in the US( I saw 4 in 1 month about another 4-6 in another, Fall and Spring respectively). They are a frequent sight on European roads in Autumn/Fall and I believe are a nightmare in the summer months.
A little experiment for you: Next time you're in Europe, go to an RV dealer and give the tongue on one of their say 20' caravans (trailers) a push with your knee and watch it move a foot and so easily. Then just try with you and a buddy to do the same thing on a trailer of the same length here. You're in for a real surprise! Construction strength is very important and a constant irritant source to the RV buyers here and so is insulation, interior construction, appliance size/capacity, and actual RV's lifetime expectancy. As heavily as they're built here in comparison, the owners still constantly complain and just try cutting the thicknesses/capacities in half which is generally what's done in Europe and you'd hardly get someone to buy one.
Not True. The Caravans are very well built. There more like an Airstream in how they have the wheels in the centre making them easy to move. We do have problems with the build quality of US 5th wheels that have been imported. So in many cases they are rebuilt for use on Australian roads.
My Question what has this got to do with "A view from GM"?
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RobertRyan
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11/19/08 05:26pm |
Around the Campfire
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RE: A view from within GM
Sure, things can be done to "lighten up" these various items but who's going to buy them as we are not about to have the cracker box RV's and tiny few boats that are the norm in say, Europe. Only the upper income can afford even these over there.
That is not correct either. Just been all over Northern Europe. The "cracker box RV" generally is the same size or bigger than the small Itasca and the other Sprinter based RV's .Upper Income? No, a lot of normal middle class families own RV's of some sort in Europe.
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RobertRyan
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11/19/08 11:57am |
Around the Campfire
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RE: A view from within GM
travelnutz some corrections to your post:
The mid sized GM Holden or Holden Rodeo Truck and Isuzu D-Max is the very same vehicle that we know as the Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon but has different engine options. An Isuzu 2.5L 114hp diesel, an Isuzu 3.0L 144HP diesel, or the hopped up version 3.0L Isuzu diesel with 161hp. These are coupled to a 4 speed auto or a 5 speed manual. Division controls and controlling location is in Rayong, Thailand. Also often referred to as the Isuzu "I" series. These Isuzu diesel engines are very good with excellent reliability but the truck buying public over here would need to have a huge "mind makeover" before they would accept these engine's output power (HP and Torque)
These are not Trucks to us, the F250-F350 is not a Truck, the are Utes. We see then as a Light commercial Vehicles. Same as the Holden Rodeo now Colorado, same category except lighter.
I know what's used in Europe and it's not anything that resembles the OTR trucks we are used to. Their roads couldn't begin to handle our large trucks, Generally very narrow roads, right angle turns very often, tight roundabouts, no place to park or turn them around. Australia, on the other hand, is much closer to the U.S. road model layout but sitll has some very tight areas. Your trans-continental caravans are huge rigs and dwarf our class 8's or double bottom rigs. However, that has little to do with the general vehicle buying public's choice of what they buy and drive as it applies to this "RV" forum.
You are speaking of two very different things US Pickups and European Trucks. Well European Trucks are roughly in the 44 ton category. US Pickups are very light vehicles.I think you are refering to the use of Cabovers in European cities. US Bonneted or Convential Trucks would not be allowed due to length restrictions on the Cabs. The US Heavy Trucks as a whole are on average the same in weight and general length to the European Heavy Truck counterparts and their trailers.
Australia, on the other hand, is much closer to the U.S. road model layout but sitll has some very tight areas
Been all over Europe, the US and Australia/New Zealand, I would have to say that is not correct.
My towing of a 35ft 5'er or trailer said on OUR highways, USA and Canada by our citizens, and never mentioned these trailers in other locations of the world. There are well over 16 million trailers registered in the USA and they ARE towed. Most of them weigh as much or more when on the road than their towing vehicle! North American trailers also consist of large and/or heavy boats very often and a little engine or vehicle wouldn't have a chance and would be a nearly sure accident creator on our very busy roads with any average sized North American trailer. Try suddenly coming up on a slow moving vehicle at 70-75 mph once with no where to go and you'll get the drift real quick.
Bit confused here what you are trying to get at. Yes Their are a lot of "Trailers" Caravans in Europe here and elsewhere that weigh more than their towing vehicle.
Actually you tow and carry less generally than we do in Australia. What this has to do with Japanese Mediums not being used as towing vehicles is a mystery to me?. I think you are refering to the fact that US pickups are traditionally used for towing and the Japanese Light and Medium Trucks are used as Box Trucks.
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RobertRyan
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11/19/08 11:11am |
Around the Campfire
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RE: A view from within GM
A 33ft 5th wheel being towed by a small Hino Truck in New Zealand. Another one of the Forum members from NZ who also lives in the mountainous South Island of New Zealand, tows his 36ft Komfort with a medium Isuzu. He has said it is a bit of overkill for his rig.
http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/tq/8/70844108.jpg
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RobertRyan
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11/19/08 03:59am |
Around the Campfire
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RE: A view from within GM
How many delivery/work trucks/vehicles do you see in your area? You can't compare the peanuts to grapefruit as they are so different. Foreign countries use trucks with a gross of about 40,000 lbs compared to our 80,000 lbs. We travel across the pond and know! Do you want to see 2 times as many trucks plugging our roads to deliver the same quantity of products?
You really have to be joking! US trucks are very light indeed. Most are mainly Pickup deriatives not the Class 6-8's that predominate in Europe for instance.Volvo; Freightliner, Mack,Sterling and Western Star are European owned. Paccar has a a DAF designed V8 diesel.Isuzu is the underpinnings of the heavy GMC Commercial Trucks.
Ever wondered why the European trucking industry owns so much of the US Market!!
As for quality and reliability you are just dead wrong as to today's vehicles. Domestics offer vehicles that are used for much heavier work and hauling than the "people movers" the foreign owned operations offer. How many 35ft 5'ers or trailers etc do you see on non-domestic trucks plying our highways?
Seeing the bulk of Japanese Mediums are used for Heavy Commercial work, it is not surprising they are not used as 5th wheel tows. Volvo is used a lot for heavy 5th wheels and the German owned Freightliner does the rest.
Domestics offer vehicles that are used for much heavier work and hauling than the "people movers"
Really do not have a clue at what you are getting at here.
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RobertRyan
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11/19/08 03:23am |
Around the Campfire
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RE: Manufacturers: who has staying power
United Airlines and General Motors will be gone in 2 years. GM will be taken over.
UAL will merge then just go out of business.
Fleetwood, Monaco and all Class A's , will be bought up too , and all disappear in favor of European 'Caravans' ...
Think it wont happen ?
And NASCAR wont ever have Toyota engines across the board eihter.
I think this is a little bit pessimistic. There is a tidal wave of retirees from the Baby Boomer generation about to retire ,who want to do some RVing of some sort, .
Should be enough to keep the Class A class, going and yes the smaller Motorhomes based on the European Chassis' will be more popular.
In Australia Caravans( tow people; Trailers tow goods/livestock) are very popular these are being influenced by the Europeans; Marine Practices(as regards building)and US motorhomes(slideouts and hitches). It is easy to get into your "loungeroom on wheels" a SUV and tow a " Motel Unit on wheels" a Caravan. 5th wheels are not that
popular because , the tow vehicle is not as comfortable as a SUV for general towing after you have unhitched.
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RobertRyan
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11/18/08 05:11pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: New TV-Ford F150
OK re-read the manual. Well just kind of parts I only thought I needed. I also have the chrome pkg. So from what I understand if I stick to something around 6000lbs I should be good. Below is what I found out. Thanks for all the help.
have an '06, F-150, 5.4L, 3.73 LS, 4X4, tow package.
My experience towing a 6,000 TT matched with my comfort level after two long trips through the western U.S. tells me that I am at the upper end of the range for these trucks and their capacity for towing weight.
To answer your question, I would treat that figure of 7,200 pounds of weight being towed as the maximum for your truck.
Good luck and happy trails.
That is very similar to what Asian Pickups can tow in Australia, a 6000lb TT(Caravan) but most people here use a SUV.
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RobertRyan
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11/17/08 11:45am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Now this is towing! Not for the faint of heart!
A Mercedes Artego Medium truck used as a basis for this Motorhome. It is 38ft long and a GVM of 33,000lbs. Another Rivenlee
http://www.rivenleemotorhomes.com/img/DSC_1021_600400.jpg
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RobertRyan
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11/15/08 10:04pm |
Towing
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RE: Now this is towing! Not for the faint of heart!
An IVECO Daily pulling a 31ft King of the Road(Now called Playmor)
http://www.australianrv.com.au/31_King/31_King_main.jpg
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RobertRyan
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11/15/08 09:35pm |
Towing
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RE: Now this is towing! Not for the faint of heart!
These road trains are fascinating. But honestly, I'd like to see more information on the Iveco and other units used in place of our F-series, Silverado's, and Rams. Of course, fuel prices are down right now, but who knows where it will go from here. Some purpose-built, high durability type replacements might get very interesting in a hurry. Find me a relatively affordable, highly durable, heavier built unit, such as we call a medium duty M2 or Sportchassis, and I'd be interested.
The IVECO is interesting. It would seem a highly unlikely candidate for a Tow Vehicle with a 3 Litre diesel(like a Mercedes Sprinter), but they have become increasingly popular for towing up to 31-32 5th wheels with GVM's of 13,000lbs. Because of the cost of converting US Pickups to RHD in Australia people looked for alternatives. The IVECO had very suitable ride and roadholding(it is a basis for many European Motorhomes 's up 30ft) and you can put it on cruise control to do 60mph all day.
For much larger 5th wheels(all getting pretty rare in Australia) 38-40ft US HD Pickups ;40-50ft, then it is either a Volvo, or a IVECO Eurocargo or one of the Japanese Mediums(you use I see Freightliner Pickups) . Still these Euro and Japanese Mediums are overkill for a 40ft 5th wheel! if you were to drop the Cursor 5.9 Litre 290hp , 700lbs ft of a very flat torque curve engine of the IVECO Eurocargo in tho the Daily, you would have something that would tow a battleship.
An extreme example a Rivenlee Horse float( Normal 5th wheeler with Horses instead of toys) 48ft long. Volvo 460hp.
http://www.rivenleefloats.com/img/truck7pic1ds.jpg
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RobertRyan
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11/15/08 02:41pm |
Towing
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RE: What will jumpstart the baby boomers into buying again.
Hey, thanks Supercharged! I've always wanted to see Australia and New Zealand, but I'd prefer doing it by MH. Right now, I'm looking into doing a MH caravan with several of my coach pals in 2009. Our trip will be to ship our MHs departing from Baltimore, MD., with a trip through Southern Europe, across to Northern Africa, travelling east to Egypt, and north to Turkey and the fascinating Muslim World. This should keep me busy for a few months abroad. I can always ship the coach to Australia, then New Zealand from there.
How big will the Coach be?
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RobertRyan
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11/14/08 01:48pm |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Fifth wheels for export
If you look on the one posted link it is a Aussy dealer to contact. If there roads in Australia are like New Zealand's roads, don't think I would like driven with a 5ver down there. Roads are kind of narrow. How ever, there are class "A"s down there, a few 5vers and a lot of class "C", and converted vans in NZ. Funny thing they drive on the wrong side of the road
Yes I noticed people in the US drive on the wrong side of the road as well. No the roads in New Zealand are narrower and we have extensive freeways they do not.
If there roads in Australia are like New Zealand's roads, don't think I would like driven with a 5ver down there
Yes 5ver's are ok on the coastal roads of Australia, they would not last in an off road scenario. Off-Road Caravans are quite common here.
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RobertRyan
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11/13/08 12:01pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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